Fediverse! I’ve been building a bridge to Bluesky, and they’re turning on federation soon, which means my bridge will be available soon too. You’ll be able to follow people on Bluesky from here in the fediverse, and vice versa.
Bluesky is a broad network with lots of worthwhile people and conversations! I hope you’ll give it a chance. Only fully public content is bridged, not followers-only or otherwise private posts or profiles. Still, if you want to opt out, I understand. Feel free to DM me at @snarfed@indieweb.social (different account than this one), email me, file a GitHub issue, or put #nobridge in your profile bio.
A number of us have thought about this for a while now, we’re committed to making it work well for everyone, and we’re very open to feedback. Thanks for listening. Feel free to share broadly.
reshared this
Bou
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Blake Leonard
in reply to Bou • • •Jesse Baer 🔥
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Roni Laukkarinen
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •:jan::abreath:🌬:dandelion:
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •:jan::abreath:🌬:dandelion:
in reply to :jan::abreath:🌬:dandelion: • • •mimo
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •JP
in reply to mimo • • •Re-introducing Bridgy Fed
snarfed.orgDJ Sundog - from the toot-lab
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Shiri Bailem
in reply to DJ Sundog - from the toot-lab • • •@DJ Sundog - from the toot-lab @Ryan Barrett @Ryan Barrett The entire fediverse is opt-out.
If you'd like an opt-in fediverse I recommend finding or setting up a whitelist instance.
DJ Sundog - from the toot-lab
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •L. Rhodes
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •How do domain blocks work across the bridge?
For example, if I'm opted-in to the bridge, but want to block the entire foo.bar PDS, will a Mastodon domain block work?
Assuming it does anything at all, will it block all traffic originating from foo.bar, or only accounts that use the foo.bar domain in their handles?
If it doesn't work, is there any way to subscribe to a shared blocklist across the bridge?
SuperMoosie
in reply to L. Rhodes • • •There is no opt in.
He is sending all your posts across to a commercial site, with out anyones permission.
@snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
Sam :verified:
in reply to SuperMoosie • • •Tim Erickson, @stpaultim
in reply to Sam :verified: • • •There is nothing to prevent a commercial organization from setting up a Mastodon server, in fact I believe that there are already examples of that.
So, there is no protection on Mastodon now for sharing your content with commercial services.
L. Rhodes
in reply to Tim Erickson, @stpaultim • • •FeralRobots
in reply to L. Rhodes • • •How do defederation & account level domain blocks prevent some commercial entity from setting up a server & syndicating via the activitypub protocol?
@stpaultim @sam @SuperMoosie @snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
FeralRobots
in reply to L. Rhodes • • •@snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
Shiri Bailem
in reply to L. Rhodes • • •@L. Rhodes @Ryan Barrett on both sides the bridge would appear as a single instance, so you would not be able to selectively block servers on the other side of the bridge. If this becomes a problem you can easily block the whole bridge.
For more granular controls you would want a native plugin to your platform.
Golda
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •could you block individual fediverse users from bluesky?
i'm not sure on fediverse if we currently can block individual users effectively anyway from this direction?
L. Rhodes
in reply to Golda • • •From what I can tell, the bridge uses the did:plc as the account ID of Bluesky posts bridged to ActivityPub, which should make it relatively easy to block individual accounts, since that's their canonical ID on the Bluesky network.
Ironically, it *doesn't* use a canonical ID when relaying ActivityPub to Bluesky—it uses the bridgy domain as part of the ID—which could theoretically make it easier to avoid Bluesky blocks from the ActivityPub side.
Golda
in reply to L. Rhodes • • •Qazm
in reply to Golda • • •L. Rhodes
in reply to Qazm • • •My understanding is that blocks are handled upstream of the PDS—usually by the feed generator or App View. I could be wrong about that, though. Maybe PDS also handle blocks? But the flow chart in their latest white paper also shows some feeds bypassing the PDS and going straight to the account-holder's client, so it seems possible to route around PDS blocking enforcement.
All those extra services complicate things, don't they?
Qazm
in reply to L. Rhodes • • •Yeah.
Each PDS publishes its local users' block lists (and changes to that should be part of its outbound AT firehose), so the bridge can send blocks to Bsky. On the fedi side, it should notice them at least through authorised fetch, but there's probably some activity pushed for changes there too.
The main "issue" is that it's a push vs. pull and collation boundary, so the bridge must bookkeep this info locally and can't just translate volatile network requests on demand.
Edit: Well, that's single users blocks at least. Bsky's moderation lists can since recently also be subscribed to as blocklists. I assume that works similarly, but translating them across to AP would mean flattening them in an n*m operation.
Qazm
in reply to Qazm • • •An interesting aspect of blocks on Bsky is that they're non-destructive, so they don't actually cut follow-relationships (but essentially fully suspend them) and are pretty reversible. I think that's an implementation detail though and neither AT nor AP really prescribe this one way or another.
Non-destructive blocks are a bit nicer with shared blocklists, since that means less "spiky" computing and that block lists can't do as much damage if they become unreliable.
L. Rhodes
in reply to Qazm • • •C.Synthare
in reply to L. Rhodes • • •Qazm
in reply to L. Rhodes • • •The bridge can't really filter in this direction, since afaik AT firehose subscriptions are anonymous. Rather, it's Eta's PDS that enforces the bridged block. Delta's instance should also stop sending posts to the bridge, as AP does not use a firehose, but only if there are no other (not-blocked) bridged Bsky followers.
A meaningful desync happens only when the block is rescinded: The bridge may have to automatically re-follow Delta as Eta to restore consistency, since I don't think you can 'remove a follower' on AT.
What happens with a follow in the other direction depends on whether there are separate block and unfollow activities generated by Mastodon. If yes, then no desync happens and Delta('s software) can choose whether they still follow Eta after the block is gone. If blocking does imply unfollowing in AP, then the bridge would have to translate AP blocks into AT block-and-unfollow.
Delta would then not follow Eta after the block is gone, unless Delta('s instance) re-follows Eta explicitly.
Maybe there's some inconsistency detection and cleanup scheme
... 显示更多The bridge can't really filter in this direction, since afaik AT firehose subscriptions are anonymous. Rather, it's Eta's PDS that enforces the bridged block. Delta's instance should also stop sending posts to the bridge, as AP does not use a firehose, but only if there are no other (not-blocked) bridged Bsky followers.
A meaningful desync happens only when the block is rescinded: The bridge may have to automatically re-follow Delta as Eta to restore consistency, since I don't think you can 'remove a follower' on AT.
What happens with a follow in the other direction depends on whether there are separate block and unfollow activities generated by Mastodon. If yes, then no desync happens and Delta('s software) can choose whether they still follow Eta after the block is gone. If blocking does imply unfollowing in AP, then the bridge would have to translate AP blocks into AT block-and-unfollow.
Delta would then not follow Eta after the block is gone, unless Delta('s instance) re-follows Eta explicitly.
Maybe there's some inconsistency detection and cleanup scheme built into one or both of the protocols, too, in which case the bridge should make use of that where possible. I'm not aware of such a mechanism, though.
Qazm
in reply to Qazm • • •If the bridge forgets about the block somehow, then the follow may be restored on the AT side if Eta's PDS pulls Delta's AT repository from the bridge to refresh/catch up after a disconnect and doesn't see the block, yes.
The bridge can probe whether Delta blocks Eta over AP at least if Delta's instance requires Authorized Fetch, so when possible, it should probably do that at a low frequency to keep its records straight.
Cloudbreaker
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Stephan Schwab
in reply to Cloudbreaker • • •David B. Himself
in reply to Cloudbreaker • • •How is that for your privacy?
Carolyn
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Blake Leonard
in reply to Carolyn • • •Zatty :meowybara:
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •JP
in reply to Zatty :meowybara: • • •Blake Leonard
in reply to JP • • •JP
in reply to Blake Leonard • • •JP
in reply to JP • • •Blake Leonard
in reply to JP • • •SuperMoosie
in reply to JP • • •The difference is it is a commercial network. We have not signed up to the TOS AND he is copying everything with out permission from the user.
We did sign up just to the fediverse, not to make content for a billionaire.
If people want to post elsewhere they can sign up for the TOS.
It needs to be OPT IN If people want to use it.
@zatnosk @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
Kay Ohtie, Bat-Yote!
in reply to SuperMoosie • • •Considering each instance can have its own terms of service, this is a legal space that is largely untested currently. My thoughts are that the legality will boil down to "follow each instance terms", but it's an amazingly complex thing even there. And I say this even as an instance owner who thinks that bridgy should be explicitly opt-in either per-post, per-user, or per-instance.
Per-instance, to me, kind of makes the MOST sense for having an 'opt-out' tag in the bio -- each instance owner is then making their own users aware of the policy and can give them advance notice if they don't wish to be included. Just having a global "we can have your information even if you're unaware of it" policy is half the problem of the current tech industry snarfing up damn everything as if it's theirs to use, causing all the LLM garbage issues today.
Hell, the fact I'd have to end my wifi SSID in _at least_ two weird tag things, and one of them MUST be the last one, to avoid my wifi SSID, BSSID, and location getting snarfed by mapping cars (google, MS, etc) is just part of this. I h
... 显示更多Considering each instance can have its own terms of service, this is a legal space that is largely untested currently. My thoughts are that the legality will boil down to "follow each instance terms", but it's an amazingly complex thing even there. And I say this even as an instance owner who thinks that bridgy should be explicitly opt-in either per-post, per-user, or per-instance.
Per-instance, to me, kind of makes the MOST sense for having an 'opt-out' tag in the bio -- each instance owner is then making their own users aware of the policy and can give them advance notice if they don't wish to be included. Just having a global "we can have your information even if you're unaware of it" policy is half the problem of the current tech industry snarfing up damn everything as if it's theirs to use, causing all the LLM garbage issues today.
Hell, the fact I'd have to end my wifi SSID in _at least_ two weird tag things, and one of them MUST be the last one, to avoid my wifi SSID, BSSID, and location getting snarfed by mapping cars (google, MS, etc) is just part of this. I have to take up limited characters in my bio for each service I want no part in? I have to make my SSID ugly just so a corp won't use info I didn't consent to them using? While I like the idea of being able to follow friends of mine who are on AT instead of fedi, and refuse to use fedi, it's not worth it being so open; I always figured there would be an opt-in mechanism, not yet more opt-out stuff.
C'mon, @activitypubblueskybridge, haven't you seen how many times people offering only opt-out are shown the distaste for this? =/ 'bridge' or not, it's still technically a specialized service, it's not transparent just because things are duplicated both ways.
Sam :verified:
in reply to SuperMoosie • • •David B. Himself
in reply to SuperMoosie • • •eishiya
in reply to JP • • •The difference is that when you post to the Fediverse, you expect your post to be federated within the Fediverse via its native means. One consents to this type of content propagation when they make posts on Fedi.
Bridging is something beyond that, and is not something one consents to when making posts on the Fediverse.
Shiri Bailem
in reply to eishiya • • •@eishiya @JP you should know that Bluesky, once they start federating (which this is directly related to)... is the fediverse as well.
Please do not confuse Mastodon/ActivityPub with the whole fediverse. The fediverse is a wide array of servers and there are many bridges between different protocols out there already.
And on the topic of consent, this is a purely public system. Consent within the fediverse is opt out, when you post publically you are automatically consenting to anyone receiving and transmitting your post however they wish. If you do not wish to provide that consent, you make your post private.
Bridges are a natural part of federation and are key to it's survival as it makes all relevant platforms less likely to collapse.
Daisy Doo & TuxieGirl Betty
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •Jupiter Rowland
in reply to Daisy Doo & TuxieGirl Betty • • •@Stevie Cat, Daisy Dog & Betty So I guess you're one of those who have joined Mastodon in the second Twitter migration wave in November 2022, and who still "know" that the Fediverse is only Mastodon. Their nice and cosy and fluffy Mastodon.
Well, then I've got a very very uncomfortable and upsetting truth to reveal to you: The Fediverse is not only Mastodon. It is more than just Mastodon.
There's a whole lot more stuff in the Fediverse, and all of it is connected to Mastodon just like Mastodon instances are connected to one another.
For example, there are dozens of other Twitter-like microblogging projects. Mastodon forks such as Glitch or Hometown. Pleroma. Pleroma forks such as Akkoma. Misskey. Dozens of Misskey forks such as Firefish, Iceshrimp, Sharkey, Catodon, Hajkey, Meisskey etc.
There are "Reddit clones" like Lemmy or /kbin.
There is the "Instagram clone" Pixelfed.
There is the YouTube stand-in PeerTube.
Th
... 显示更多@Stevie Cat, Daisy Dog & Betty So I guess you're one of those who have joined Mastodon in the second Twitter migration wave in November 2022, and who still "know" that the Fediverse is only Mastodon. Their nice and cosy and fluffy Mastodon.
Well, then I've got a very very uncomfortable and upsetting truth to reveal to you: The Fediverse is not only Mastodon. It is more than just Mastodon.
There's a whole lot more stuff in the Fediverse, and all of it is connected to Mastodon just like Mastodon instances are connected to one another.
For example, there are dozens of other Twitter-like microblogging projects. Mastodon forks such as Glitch or Hometown. Pleroma. Pleroma forks such as Akkoma. Misskey. Dozens of Misskey forks such as Firefish, Iceshrimp, Sharkey, Catodon, Hajkey, Meisskey etc.
There are "Reddit clones" like Lemmy or /kbin.
There is the "Instagram clone" Pixelfed.
There is the YouTube stand-in PeerTube.
There is the Twitch stand-in Owncast.
There are the "Medium clones" WriteFreely and Plume.
There is the "Goodreads clone" BookWyrm.
There are the Facebook alternatives Friendica and (streams) as well as Hubzilla which goes well beyond being a Facebook alternative.
And a lot more.
All this is in the Fediverse, and all this is connected to Mastodon, whether you want or not. It's normal. It's intended. It's the very idea behind the Fediverse. And it has always been the idea behind the Fediverse.
Look at my mentions, how weird they look. Look at my hashtags, how weird they look. Look at this post and how it exceeds 500 characters. Look at my bold type. Look at my italics. All stuff that Mastodon can't do.
But how can I possibly do it if Mastodon can't do it?
Because I'm not on Mastodon. I'm on Hubzilla. Hubzilla is not a Mastodon instance. Hubzilla is not even a Mastodon fork. Hubzilla is developed completely independently from Mastodon. And Hubzilla is almost a year older than Mastodon. And yet, I can read what you've posted, and I can reply to you.
That's because Hubzilla is part of the Fediverse, just like Mastodon is. And it has always been.
CC: @Shiri Bailem @JP @eishiya
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Firefish #Iceshrimp #Sharkey #Catodon #Hajkey #Meisskey #Lemmy #kbin #/kbin #Pixelfed #PeerTube #Owncast #WriteFreely #Plume #BookWyrm #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #NotOnlyMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #FediverseIsNotMastodon
Tim Chambers
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •the roamer
in reply to Zatty :meowybara: • • •Tim Erickson, @stpaultim
in reply to the roamer • • •This argument about consent is fictional. Anyone can create a server on the Fediverse and everyone on the Fediverse is conntected, without their consent.
Bluesky could create a Mastodon server, any commercial entity can create a server and everyone is linked without consent.
The only way to preserve consent on the Fediverse, is to create a server that is not linked to other servers, in which case you don't have to worry about this bridge.
Tim Erickson, @stpaultim
in reply to Tim Erickson, @stpaultim • • •the roamer
in reply to Tim Erickson, @stpaultim • • •The BS bridge links to a commercial platform outside the Fediverse, rather than to other instances within the Fediverse. People sign up to their Fediverse instance in order to be connected within the Fediverse. Some people in the Fediverse also want to be connected to commercial external platforms, but many very definitely don't. They joined the Fediverse precisely because they want to be free from those platforms. That's where the "opt-out" mechanism violates consent.
#consent
Ben Thompson 🐕
in reply to Tim Erickson, @stpaultim • • •Tim Erickson, @stpaultim
in reply to Ben Thompson 🐕 • • •The developer has made clear that this bridge is only possible if Blue Sky turns on Federation and made clear it will be a two way bridge.
I'll leave it at that.
snarfed.org/2023-11-27_re-intr…
Re-introducing Bridgy Fed
snarfed.orgchris@strafpla.net
in reply to the roamer • • •However, blueky could easily become one of the too big to block instances on the fediverse, but with a different culture concerning moderation (and archiving), and that may become a problem.
Sam :verified:
in reply to Zatty :meowybara: • • •Please shut the fuck up.
Mastodon sends your posts to thousands of other servers without your consent. That is how ActivityPub works. This is doing absolutely nothing different.
Markus
in reply to Sam :verified: • • •Bluesky isn't simply "another server"
Victoria Fierce :vbike:
in reply to Markus • • •Världens bästa Kille™
in reply to Markus • • •Tim Erickson, @stpaultim
in reply to Sam :verified: • • •I'm in agreement with your arguments. But, I'm fully against the tone and the aggressiveness of your responses.
It's nice that Mastodon has such nice features to block users such as yourself.
Your account is an opt-out account. No one was asked to consent to your hostility, it's just part of the network, however everyone has the option to block it (opt out).
I expect, I'll be taking advantage of that feature.
sour ._.
in reply to Sam :verified: • • •Blake Leonard
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •I'm a big fan of bridges and this is the big one I've been eagerly waiting for. I'll probably add it to my wizard soon after it's available. Once the moderation issues get sorted out, I firmly believe that in the end, this will be a net positive for both networks, since Bluesky users will be able to follow and engage with the vibrant and growing communities and services here, and we'll be able to follow and engage with shitposters from Bluesky.
The moderation issues should be sorted out promptly, and I'm a little disappointed that you're going to open it up with little consideration about mod tooling, especially considering the lists and lists of known problematic users on Bluesky, from mere crypto-shills and scammers to bigots, transphobes, racists, fascists, and genocide supporters. I don't have any way to find or use Bluesky's mod lists from here so there needs to be some other way.
Plus, I'm sure Bluesky users want a way to mass-mute and mass-block bridged users, maybe even from part
... 显示更多I'm a big fan of bridges and this is the big one I've been eagerly waiting for. I'll probably add it to my wizard soon after it's available. Once the moderation issues get sorted out, I firmly believe that in the end, this will be a net positive for both networks, since Bluesky users will be able to follow and engage with the vibrant and growing communities and services here, and we'll be able to follow and engage with shitposters from Bluesky.
The moderation issues should be sorted out promptly, and I'm a little disappointed that you're going to open it up with little consideration about mod tooling, especially considering the lists and lists of known problematic users on Bluesky, from mere crypto-shills and scammers to bigots, transphobes, racists, fascists, and genocide supporters. I don't have any way to find or use Bluesky's mod lists from here so there needs to be some other way.
Plus, I'm sure Bluesky users want a way to mass-mute and mass-block bridged users, maybe even from particular instances, especially considering our ongoing tone police and reply guy problems, which have driven numerous people from here to there. I feel like this part is imminently solvable with automatically-populated moderation list(s), though.
Bridge Finder
blakes.dev - Blake LeonardSuperMoosie
in reply to Blake Leonard • • •Where have we signed up for the bluesky TOS?
What gives this guy the right to copy our content we make for the fediverse available on a commercial network?
No one has consented for this.
Bridges need to be opt in.
@fediversenews @fedidevs @activitypubblueskybridge @snarfed.org @snarfed
Darryl Wright
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •FinchHaven
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Opt-in only, or I #DomainBlock
What is that again?
bsky.brid.gy?
So noted...
I want *nothing* to do with #Bluesky
#NoBridge has been added to my profile
cc @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews@venera.social
unlofl [Promoted Toot]
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •"Moderate people, not code"
You do not have the resources to moderate everything that will flow over this bridge, so you shouldn't do it. Your project will force this work on other instance mods.
Opt-out is unethical because people aren't aware they're being opted-in, but also because it makes this bigger and dumps more work on other instances.
unlofl [Promoted Toot]
in reply to unlofl [Promoted Toot] • • •Kiki Sorsan sisko
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Toa :fumo_cirno:
in reply to Kiki Sorsan sisko • • •Baral'heia Stormdancer ΘΔ🐲
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Noxy 🐾
in reply to Baral'heia Stormdancer ΘΔ🐲 • • •River :therian:
in reply to Noxy 🐾 • • •Baral'heia Stormdancer ΘΔ🐲
in reply to Noxy 🐾 • • •Pusher Of Pixels (old account)
in reply to Baral'heia Stormdancer ΘΔ🐲 • • •"I have essentially zero issue with a public post of mine being visible to any and all"
YOU speak for only YOU. Yet you seem happy to subject others to your comfort zone.
Do you not see why that's a significant problem?
Baral'heia Stormdancer ΘΔ🐲
in reply to Pusher Of Pixels (old account) • • •Bridgy Fed
fed.brid.gyPusher Of Pixels (old account)
in reply to Baral'heia Stormdancer ΘΔ🐲 • • •So you're supposition is people can choose how widely seen their content is?
That's kinda ironic considering this is entirely without choice for the vast majority who won't even know about it.
OptOut is a terrible idea on every angle.
Chris Trottier
in reply to Pusher Of Pixels (old account) • • •@AS4gBPS9axYI2RYbEe.snarfed.org@snarfed.org Opt-out is the default of the Fediverse. As a server admin, I don’t actively choose who federates with me. Federation happens as soon as my server “sees” another.
There is a way to change this default towards opt-in, and that’s by whitelisting. Most servers, including universeodon.com, don’t choose to go this route because it severely affects their visibility.
Another problem is that, even if you whitelist, once your content federates onto another server, it is beyond your control. It exists elsewhere. A malicious party who is on another server may interact with it in a distasteful, insensitive, perhaps illegal manner.
The way some servers have gotten around this is by turning off federation entirely. That is an option, but probably not one that most people on the Fediverse want.
Universeodon Social Media
Mastodon hosted on universeodon.comtallship
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Yes indeed, Thanks for making that clarification for all of the clueless people posting here who hitherto believed otherwise, as if they ever had it that way.
They'll complain and threaten to go somewhere else, and of course, they're welcome to that option as well, but in the end...
"“Life's but a walking shadow; a poor player, that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more: it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”
#tallship #FOSS #Fediverse #bridges #innovation #fools
⛵️
.
Tim Chambers
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Baral'heia Stormdancer ΘΔ🐲
in reply to Pusher Of Pixels (old account) • • •uh yeah, that's the whole point. This bridge acts just like a regular Fedi user and follows all the same rules. If the bridge can't see your posts, it can't do anything with them - and you have full control over how visible your posts are. You also have the option of adding a hashtag to your profile, defederating from the domain the bridge lives on, or contacting the dev for a manual opt-out.
Plus, as far as I can tell, absolutely none of this is intended to happen in a vacuum. The documentation I linked earlier explains that users who are followed via the bridge still get a notification that they were followed, just like they were followed by a regular Fedi account. You'll see the BlueSky user names of each user that follows you through the bridge, and you'll be able to block individual users from seeing your account through the bridge if you so choose (in addition to the options above).
You'll have the same control over who can see your content that you would with any other Fedi user.
I'd strongly recommend reading the documentation to get a better understandin
... 显示更多uh yeah, that's the whole point. This bridge acts just like a regular Fedi user and follows all the same rules. If the bridge can't see your posts, it can't do anything with them - and you have full control over how visible your posts are. You also have the option of adding a hashtag to your profile, defederating from the domain the bridge lives on, or contacting the dev for a manual opt-out.
Plus, as far as I can tell, absolutely none of this is intended to happen in a vacuum. The documentation I linked earlier explains that users who are followed via the bridge still get a notification that they were followed, just like they were followed by a regular Fedi account. You'll see the BlueSky user names of each user that follows you through the bridge, and you'll be able to block individual users from seeing your account through the bridge if you so choose (in addition to the options above).
You'll have the same control over who can see your content that you would with any other Fedi user.
I'd strongly recommend reading the documentation to get a better understanding of how this is intended to work when it goes live.
chris@strafpla.net
in reply to Pusher Of Pixels (old account) • • •@baralheia @noxypaws @snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
🌸 lily 🏳️⚧️ :flag_pansexual: :flag_ace: θΔ ⋐ & ∞
in reply to chris@strafpla.net • • •chris@strafpla.net
in reply to 🌸 lily 🏳️⚧️ :flag_pansexual: :flag_ace: θΔ ⋐ & ∞ • • •Do you think that people who don’t know about the bridge would give a fsck about it - taking into account that their public posts are visible on instances of lemmy, friendica, pleroma,… and they don’t know about it?
Isn’t the way this bridge to bluesky is implemented exactly the way that another service on the fedi should be implemented?
Is it because bluesky is a commercial instance?
@pixelpusher220 @baralheia @noxypaws @snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
🌸 lily 🏳️⚧️ :flag_pansexual: :flag_ace: θΔ ⋐ & ∞
in reply to chris@strafpla.net • • •chris@strafpla.net
in reply to 🌸 lily 🏳️⚧️ :flag_pansexual: :flag_ace: θΔ ⋐ & ∞ • • •So what’ the difference between the fedi
and bridged bluesky?
Just the protocol? What parts/variants?
If I ask those very angry posters in this thread, can they explain to me what activitypub is?
What about services that use OStatus? Are they fedi? And then most posts are accessible using rss and some are integrating this into their blogs.
Is wordpress an ok member of the fediverse?
@pixelpusher220 @baralheia @noxypaws @snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
chris@strafpla.net
in reply to chris@strafpla.net • • •where does it have to be implemented? Can a service use a different protocol for internal communication and communicate to external instances using AP? Can this part run as a separate server? What’s the difference to a bridge?
No, this drama is not about the protocol.
“The Fedi” means something(s) else and we need to understand this to solve the drama.
@pixelpusher220 @baralheia @noxypaws @snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
Baral'heia Stormdancer ΘΔ🐲
in reply to Baral'heia Stormdancer ΘΔ🐲 • • •Shiri Bailem
in reply to Baral'heia Stormdancer ΘΔ🐲 • • •@Baral'heia Stormdancer🔜 AnEx @Ryan Barrett that's pretty much already native with how a bridge works.
When a Bluesky user goes to follow you, you'll get a follow request from that user:instance@bridge (or similiar format username).
A lot of the confusion and freak out comes from people (a) not knowing how bridges work and (b) taking vague offense because they don't like Bluesky and think that the whole fediverse should conform to their personal standards
Baral'heia Stormdancer ΘΔ🐲
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •reshared this
Fediverse News reshared this.
hazelnot :yell:
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Shiri Bailem
in reply to hazelnot :yell: • • •@hazelnot :yell: @Ryan Barrett reporting you to your server admins for violating rule 7 on your server...
Bridges are a dime a dozen (literally there are so many out there already and this is open source so good luck de-federating them all without just joining a whitelist server), the fediverse doesn't work the way you think it does, bridges probably don't work the way you think they do, and dogpiling on someone for sharing their project for feedback, especially for offering a polite feature to exclude yourself from the bridge which no other bridge I've seen offers just makes it clear you're an asshole.
Evan Minto
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •reshared this
Fediverse News reshared this.
Cătă
in reply to hazelnot :yell: • • •hazelnot :yell:
in reply to Cătă • • •the roamer
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Jess
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •if me or other trans* individuals, or other marginalized groups (many of whom I'm sure will *never* see your post with the genuinely shit opt-out option) are harassed or otherwise receive uninvited abuse and commentary through your bridge, are you prepared to face legal challenges brought against you?
Arataka
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Lorrie W 🇺🇦
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •I want to OPT OUT please.
#NoBridge for me.
This should have been an OPT-IN only
zetta (hamline midway arc)
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Adam ♿
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Dorothea Salo
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Congratulations! You convinced me to block your entire domain!
Well done, you exploitative git.
Thomas
in reply to Dorothea Salo • • •smeg
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •alex :nonbinary_flag:
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Mage Moss (trying it on)
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Shiri Bailem
in reply to Mage Moss (trying it on) • • •@Cyrus (still a bit spooky tbh) @Jake @Ryan Barrett I get the feeling you think a bridge is a scraper...
Bluesky is about to start federating just under it's own protocol (their equivalent of ActivityPub which others will be able to host servers on the same as we can host servers on AP). A bridge translates between two protocols. Your content isn't getting scraped and uploaded to Bluesky.
A bridge just means that Bluesky users will show up to us like new users on this bridge. user1@bluesky will turn into something like user1.bluesky@brid.gy.
Black Aziz Anansi :vm:
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Delta Sierra
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Such a service should be opt-in only, for the handful of folks who DO want their content used to generate traffic for Bluesky.
As I'm not one of those people, I am notifying you that I am opting out. It'd be nice if that request was honored, but realistically I know it won't be.
So fuck you.
Jess
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •if me or other trans* individuals, or other marginalized groups (many of whom I'm sure will *never* see your post with the genuinely shit opt-out option) are harassed or otherwise receive uninvited abuse and commentary through your bridge, are you prepared to face legal challenges brought against you?
Shiri Bailem
in reply to Jess • • •@Jess @Ryan Barrett as a fellow trans* individual: you're either probably not familiar with how bridges work or you are not using safe practices and taking things for granted.
There are already many bridges on ActivityPub to much worse parts of the fediverse and they're not making waves (if you think Bluesky is bad, you should see Nostr). If they start harassing a user you treat it exactly the same as you would someone showing up to harass you from a new Neo-Nazi Mastodon instance, you can either block the user or block the whole bridge (only downside of a bridge is that you can't really block by individual server on the other side, it's either block individual users or the whole bridge).
This also has absolutely no threat of legal challenges to go along with it, it falls under numerous legal protections. Let alone the argument will absolutely fall apart in court
... 显示更多@Jess @Ryan Barrett as a fellow trans* individual: you're either probably not familiar with how bridges work or you are not using safe practices and taking things for granted.
There are already many bridges on ActivityPub to much worse parts of the fediverse and they're not making waves (if you think Bluesky is bad, you should see Nostr). If they start harassing a user you treat it exactly the same as you would someone showing up to harass you from a new Neo-Nazi Mastodon instance, you can either block the user or block the whole bridge (only downside of a bridge is that you can't really block by individual server on the other side, it's either block individual users or the whole bridge).
This also has absolutely no threat of legal challenges to go along with it, it falls under numerous legal protections. Let alone the argument will absolutely fall apart in court that someone would complain about easily blockable abuse on a public post.
In case you're not aware, because it seems a lot of people think a bridge is some sort of web-scraper... it's a translator between protocols. It's not scraping your profile and copying posts, it's translating ActivityPub requests to Bluesky requests and back.
Johannes Hentschel
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •@activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
Shiri Bailem
in reply to Johannes Hentschel • • •Johannes Hentschel
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •@snarfed.org
reshared this
Fediverse News reshared this.
:PUA: Shlee fucked around and
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •maegul
in reply to :PUA: Shlee fucked around and • • •eh ... as with Threads + fedipact, there's likely a spectrum where the louder voices can mask the "middle of the road" voices, for better or worse. Anti-Bridge-Pact?
What exactly is the difference between this and a new instance? I'm genuinely unclear?
Like, do kbin instances respect search indexing preferences? What about other commercial instances like moth?
Is it the relative size of bksy?
James Harris
in reply to maegul • • •maegul
in reply to James Harris • • •Yea, for me, the whole "I want a relatively anti-social social media" motive of many on masto seems like something that requires better institutional/infrastructural devices rather than merely distributing it amongst defed, personal blocks and outcries over opt-in/opt-out.
At some point, it seems, some people just want a different system than what this is. Like a closed FOSS Discord.
maegul
in reply to maegul • • •Which, TBC, is all good by me.
It's just that the amount of noise and "drama" necessary to maintain this constant vigilance against what a decentralised social media protocol naturally allows seems like a potential dead end with diminishing returns.
EG, many on bsky that those here would like to talk to have probably left here because of this "noise" however much they align with the values here.
Shiri Bailem
in reply to maegul • • •@maegul @:PUA: Shlee fucked around and @Ryan Barrett @James Harris I've seen this for a while, many people on here are highly xenophobic. They found a place for themselves and they now want to close the gates on anyone else joining, seeing "foreigners" (other platforms) as threats rather than a foundational part of how this service works.
On top of that, they often demand ideological purity... it's actually one of the reasons Twitter survives and people use other shitty platforms... because they hopped on here and found only hostility to any way in which their social norms differed from what people considered acceptable.
Jon Quass
in reply to maegul • • •I just checked and Mastodon does have a whitelist mode instances can use of they really want control over their data.
"This mode is intended for private use only, such as in academic institutions or internal company networks, as it effectively creates a data silo, which is contrary to Mastodon's mission of decentralization. This setting was known as WHITELIST_MODE prior to 3.1."
docs.joinmastodon.org/admin/co….
@jbwharris @shlee @snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
Configuring your environment
docs.joinmastodon.orgShanie
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •A lot of people are upset about this but ya'll know, straight up, if your feed is live & people not auth'd can read your server feed you *don't have privacy*. Mastodon and the fediverse in general never said anything about expectations of privacy.
Snarfed here could have been a bad actor and never told you anything and as far as I know it's in the clear.
If you don't like it, block the bridge and move on.
chris@strafpla.net
in reply to Shanie • • •Shanie
in reply to chris@strafpla.net • • •Lucky for you they gave admins an option of what you want done. Good actor.
A bad actor, for example, is likely already gathering your servers data and training it on a LLM as you have no power over THEIR server; you have *volunteered that data by federating*. Your ToS means nothing. Oops.
Someone truly worried about privacy would not be federating at all.
ACCOUNT MOVED
in reply to Shanie • • •Shanie
in reply to ACCOUNT MOVED • • •that’s extremely dependent on what kind of privacy violation, but privacy concerns interfere with basic functionality when the admin(s) of your instance get(s) lazy, really.
If you have active Admins and you can bring your concerns to their table, or they pay attention to #mastoadmin and do their due diligence, you will have a “safer” server.
ACCOUNT MOVED
in reply to Shanie • • •Unlike every other social media, you can just spin up your own instance and be your own admin. Unless you’re paying your admin, you have zero right to demand or expect anything from them and it’s on *you* as a user to whom this (or any other issue) is important to follow that stuff.
If you don’t agree with how your admin runs their instance, fire up your own
Shanie
in reply to ACCOUNT MOVED • • •I never said anything about “demanding” anything from anyone. If you have a shit admin though, or believe they are not healthy for you, yes, feel free to change servers. Only weakness is you “lose” your previous posts but whatever.
But if you are an admin and don’t at least sit and listen to your server, why are you an admin of social media?
Shiri Bailem
in reply to ACCOUNT MOVED • • •🌸 lily 🏳️⚧️ :flag_pansexual: :flag_ace: θΔ ⋐ & ∞
in reply to Shanie • • •Shanie
in reply to 🌸 lily 🏳️⚧️ :flag_pansexual: :flag_ace: θΔ ⋐ & ∞ • • •How to take a point and not at all understand what it means for $500, Alex.
It’s possible to do bad thing, so take control of your server and prevent it in an active way.
🌸 lily 🏳️⚧️ :flag_pansexual: :flag_ace: θΔ ⋐ & ∞
in reply to Shanie • • •Kinky Kobolds
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •This should be opt-in, not opt-out. BlueSky doesn't use ActivityPub and, therefore, the tools users have to protect themselves on Mastodon are incompatible with your bridge.
I'll be talking with the other moderators and admins of furry-focused servers to inform them of this new risk to marginalized users and I'm confident they'll be taking appropriate actions to keep our communities safe.
Shiri Bailem
in reply to Kinky Kobolds • • •@Kinky Kobolds @Ryan Barrett The entire fediverse is opt-out structure by default.
If you want opt-in I recommend moving to or setting up a whitelist instance (an instance configured to only federate with instances added to the whitelist, meaning all instances are opt-in by your admin).
Kinky Kobolds
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •I know that public posting means it's readable to anyone on the Internet who finds it. But as long as it's on Mastodon, I still have controls to edit and remove things as necessary. My account being mirrored to another service without my consent removes the ability to control my content.
And besides, the right to reproduce a work belongs to a copyright holder. All it takes is one person who can afford to lawyer up and this becomes a prohibitively expensive lesson in copyright law.
Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸
in reply to Kinky Kobolds • • •Miles
in reply to Kinky Kobolds • • •I hear you on the distrust of BlueSky. I think it's also important to remember that a lot of these same issues apply to other Mastadon or ActivityPub servers as well.
Mastodon instances honor edits to posts as they want to present the most up-to-date information, but I could see easily imagine an instance presenting a history of edits; that's something we wouldn't really know unless we started looking around the internet.
reshared this
Fediverse News reshared this.
Sara
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •you should not be setting this up as opt-out
I didn't consent to be part of your experiment, and if I wanted an account on some other network I'd have one
jeremiah
in reply to Sara • • •Shiri Bailem
in reply to jeremiah • • •@jeremiah @Ryan Barrett @Sara The entire fediverse is opt-out structure by default.
If you want opt-in I recommend moving to or setting up a whitelist instance (an instance configured to only federate with instances added to the whitelist, meaning all instances are opt-in by your admin).
jeremiah
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •Sure, but this isn't bridging to another Fediverse server.
I have tools within Mastodon to deal with other ActivityPub servers without talking to admins. This isn't that. This is bridging to corporate networks which is what many of us are explicitly trying to avoid.
Evan Minto
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •wet forest moon folklorist
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •chronohart
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Shiri Bailem
in reply to chronohart • • •@chronohart @Ryan Barrett because this is the fediverse and people are getting upset that their public federated posts are... getting federated?
"Opt out" is basically just a nice gesture since not all platforms have user level instance blocking.
I've also seen a few people complaining who confuse a bridge with a webscraper and have no idea how a bridge works...
chronohart
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •There are several reasons people are complaining. One good reason I've seen is that this will expose users to a social media ecosystem that they *explicitly* chose to stay away from for their own personal safety. This would be kind of similar to someone creating a new system to forcibly connect your server to one that your admin already blocked due to its members constantly harassing folks on your server.
Just because you can't imagine this being a problem in your own life, that doesn't mean the problems other people have should be ignored.
You can tell the developer doesn't give a shit what people actually want because he stated, in almost these exact words, if people got the warning about this bridge that an opt in would provide, no one would want to use it. Or "my product will be so unlikable, the only way people will use it is if they don't know it's there".
reshared this
Fediverse News reshared this.
Don Ray
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Shiri Bailem
in reply to Don Ray • • •@Don Ray @Ryan Barrett yet you decided the same for us with this comment?
If you take issue with how your public federated post is federated... then you should join a whitelist instance.
Grrrr, Darth Moose Shark
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Wow. This is just such an epically bad call. I can't imagine reading the room this badly.
ANY privacy advocate you talk to - and I really suggest you talk to a few - will give you the burning side-eye for thinking you have the right to force folks to opt out.
And you should definitely look into the fact that you may be violating the GDPR. Someone else certainly will.
Shiri Bailem
in reply to Grrrr, Darth Moose Shark • • •@Grrrr, Darth Moose Shark @Ryan Barrett it neither violates the GDPR (and if you think it does you either woefully misunderstand what a bridge is or what the GDPR covers), and as a privacy advocate... any privacy advocate that actually cares about their privacy rather than the vague concept of privacy would shrug at this.
You posted publicly and it's visible on another instance... that's all that's happening here.
I've noticed others below seem to think this is something like a web scraper or that it will do something invasive? A bridge just translates between protocols, once this is up it just means that bluesky users and activitypub users would be able to talk to eachother through this instance with it translating requests between the two (ie. user1@bluesky wants to follow user2@mastodon, they'd follow something like user2.mastodon@brid.gy; user2 will get a follow request from something like user1.bluesky@brid.gy; if they accept then they'll be sharing their posts between eachother)
Michael T. Richter
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •@snarfed.org@snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
> … we're very open to feedback.
Here's your feedback you fuckwit: get fucked.
Victoria Fierce :vbike:
in reply to Michael T. Richter • • •Shiri Bailem
in reply to Victoria Fierce :vbike: • • •@Victoria Fierce :vbike: @Michael T. Richter ... you did consent though?
If you didn't consent you'd have set up your server as a whitelist instance...
Anders Borch
in reply to Michael T. Richter • • •you have to appreciate someone so openly breaking their instance rules about proper conduct.
It makes it easier to report and block them.
tallship
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Ryan,
How refreshing!
Another bridging mechanism to extend the reach and interoperability with other Fediverse protocols in the #DeSoc space is most welcome, and from the limited analysis I've been able to perform so far this is a novel approach to what some point in the future will find other Fediverse platforms incorporating in their network stacks.
So far, we've got seamless nostr interoperability to add to the other fine protocols such as Diaspora, ZOT, Nomad, OStatus, ActivityPub, and others in the mix. You might also wish to take a look at the repo for Minds to see how they've made seamless integration between the ActivityPub and nostr portions of the #Fediverse as well, and oh, pay no mind to the infantile and disparaging remarks that some small minded folks in this thread have exhibited - they are free to *defederate themselves from the Fediverse at any time.
We've been following withe some
... 显示更多Ryan,
How refreshing!
Another bridging mechanism to extend the reach and interoperability with other Fediverse protocols in the #DeSoc space is most welcome, and from the limited analysis I've been able to perform so far this is a novel approach to what some point in the future will find other Fediverse platforms incorporating in their network stacks.
So far, we've got seamless nostr interoperability to add to the other fine protocols such as Diaspora, ZOT, Nomad, OStatus, ActivityPub, and others in the mix. You might also wish to take a look at the repo for Minds to see how they've made seamless integration between the ActivityPub and nostr portions of the #Fediverse as well, and oh, pay no mind to the infantile and disparaging remarks that some small minded folks in this thread have exhibited - they are free to *defederate themselves from the Fediverse at any time.
We've been following withe some enthusiasm your project in the Fediverse-City community and it would be a pleasure to have you participate there. Your insight into the open and public aspects of Fediverse traffic in the #DeSoc world is a testament to the innovation and evolution that is possible in obviating the proprietary, privacy disrespecting, deprecated monolothic silo networks that have sowed so much acrimony and subjugation over the very people whom they seek to quantify as their business products.
You're performing a great service here, feel free to block any miscreants in this thread who don't understand the definition of public.
Also, might I suggest that instead of offering a `#nobridge keyword index, you think about offering a solution as a FEP here?:
codeberg.org/fediverse/fep/
There are a lot of Fediverse platform developers I'm sure that you'll find welcoming, encouraging, and willing to offer assistance in formulating solutions to silence the adolescent juvenile mindsets that have been berating you in this thread for your selfless commitment to the well being of us all.
In the future, the Fediverse that we perceive and interact within will become its own heterogeneous superset of networking protocols to facilitate effortless communications between individual parties regardless of which portions of the Fediverse and their associated protocols implemented. Just like #OStatus has been largely supplanted by ActivityPub, and #ZOT has been superseded by #Nomad, the ActivityPub portion of the Fediverse will also eventually be deprecated and replaced by other stacks that will emerge from the ether of creativity. In the meantime, we'll be bridging between the various protocol stacks, and Bridgy-fed is one of those tools that serves to make that a reality :)
Thank you again, for your selfless contribution to #DeSoc and the Fediverse. it's a fantastic achievement that will serve to benefit many in both the #ATP and #ActivityPub portions of the Fediverse!
#tallship #bridgy #FOSS #Fediverse #DeSoc #innovation
⛵️
.
fep
Codeberg.orgjakob 🇦🇹 ✅
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •@Ryan Barrett @Ryan Barrett
I use Friendica. And friendica hast a bluesky-adapter built-in.
As admin i can activate it, and users can configure it for their needs...
So... instead of building such bridges it would be a great idea to build native support for different protocols in the services like mastodon, pleroma, *key...
Fill feature-requests to your projects to build a pressure-peergroup for your devs to demonstrate the need for.
For my part...
I left the commercial serviceproviders, when i discovered the fediverse. They are destroying the internet and they are also destroying democraties all over the world with their algorithms and monetarization of their users ...
This is evident. Free democratic countries do not need humanophobe tech-bros from silicon-valley or somewhere else.
So... i won't support their business-model. Free internet works by people like me, who host their own services, and work by devs of free software, who build code for selfhosters.
Think about, whose busimess you will support with your bridge.
Franc Mac
in reply to jakob 🇦🇹 ✅ • • •@jakob 🇦🇹 ✅
I am also an administrator of Friendica and for this very reason I know that I cannot ask the developers of the other social networks in the Fediverse to develop special connection bridges with other social networks.
In fact, Friendica is a software that was born "hyperconnected by design": today it supports Bluesky and Tumbir and I remind you that Friendica also supported Facebook and Twitter, at least until these social networks removed support for their APIs!
For this reason you shouldn't worry about the bridges that are about to be built: the nice thing about bridges is that they connect to other places, but in case of danger they can be blown up.
@Ryan Barrett @Ryan Barrett
tallship
Unknown parent • • •Johannes, There isn't one - they're talking out of their ass.
They're just making noise and emotionally distressed to discover that this is how the #Fediverse currently works, and always has worked - and it's not just the #ActivityPub portions of the Fediverse, or even the Fediverse - it's the entire #Internet...
"If you affect a public post, you have no expectation of privacy".
For those who still feel some sense of having been offended, I welcome them to unplug their computers and toss their iPhones and Androids into the trash. That's really their only option, and they'll come to that realization some day, maybe, and it is of no consequence for anyone else in the world if they don't.
#tallship #FOSS #networking #privacy #ignorance
⛵️
.
tallship
Unknown parent • • •Yes, we do try to respect the Creative Commons licenses - it's a great thing.
And statistically, studies have revealed that we also do our very best to respect the wishes of publishers who rebuke and refuse to allow their works in a distribution channel where items are DRM encoded.
People should have more faith in the intentions of folks trying to do good, methinks :)
There will always be bad actors
Franc Mac
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Hi @Ryan Barrett
as a Friendica user I already have the possibility to connect to the world of Bluesky, but I'm really happy that you are creating a useful tool for all other users of the fediverse!
Bluesky is a project with many critical issues and with volumes that can be problematic to manage for the instances of the Fediverse, but it is objectively a very interesting environment that is attracting the best of the users who had remained on Twitter but who unfortunately had not managed to settle into the architecture of the Fediverse.
Every project designed to create bridges deserves to be respected and supported.
For this I thank you!
@Ryan Barrett
Herr Günni alt
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •@activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
Mastodon•ART 🎨 Curator
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •You can go ahead and opt out all of mastodon.art until your bridge is FULLY opt-in.
You've been here since 2017? Long enough to have seen enough entitled techbros think they can claim some kind of ownership over people's data here and use it without consent, and get railed for it.
Opt out is not consent. Fuck off.
Shiri Bailem
in reply to Mastodon•ART 🎨 Curator • • •@Mastodon•ART 🎨 Curator @Ryan Barrett ... why don't you just block the instance?
You've been here how long and you think you're entitled to how your posts are federated beyond who you block? Sure you don't want to switch your server to a whitelist server instead?
Mastodon•ART 🎨 Curator
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •Anders Borch
in reply to Mastodon•ART 🎨 Curator • • •You may want to reconsider your "Fuck off" comment while on mastodon.art:
mastodon.art/about/more#code-o…
Mastodon.ART
Mastodon hosted on mastodon.artPhantaNews ✅
in reply to Anders Borch • • •George Saich
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •retiolus
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Tim Erickson, @stpaultim
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Thanks for your work on this valuable feature for the Fediverse AND for your transparency and willingness to listen to the feedback of the community.
Please, don't let the loudest and most hostile voices discourage you.
Clearly, we all need to do better at communicating how the Fediverse works and setting realistic expectations about privacy on this network.
Löwe (inactive)
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Andre
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •If you'd like to use our content, how about paying us for it?
Or at least consider the copyright position of each post/account rather than assuming what we produce is free for you to re-use.
Luca Sironi
in reply to Andre • • •Andre, you know, this public post you just wrote, has been temporarily cached by my pleroma server. I wonder if you consider that i'm using your content by simply answering you.
Andre
in reply to Luca Sironi • • •That would be using the content as intended. In the same way that allowing a browser to cache a web page doesn't entitle the browser use to then republish that content under their own domain.
Similarly, owning and using a DVR doesn't grant one the right to sell copies of a TV show.
I can borrow a book from a library, but that doesn't entitle me to photocopy it, rebind it and sell it to another library.
Luca Sironi
in reply to Andre • • •so i'm preemptively good person/ server because i use activitypub but you don't trust bluesky the company, because they are using that other AT protocol.
But once they opened their protocol, it's not just their company using it, other no profit actors can use it as well.
There are mastodon servers owned by company already.
Andre
in reply to Luca Sironi • • •I'm not anti-corporate at all. I have no problem with a large entity implementing native activitypub and interacting natively with the community.
I do not see bridges/gateways that republish content as that at all.
Further, I understand there's a difference between offering someone a beer and having them walk into my house and help themselves to the fridge.
Shiri Bailem
in reply to Andre • • •Andre
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •No, I'm upset because this is a private beer party and you gatecrashed and you're handing the beer to your shady friends in the back alley.
I get your mindset. If you get touch it, it's yours. The mindset that sees nothing wrong with ripping people's writings and republishing them. Nothing wrong with helping yourself to any photograph you see on the internet and using it for whatever purpose you see fit. Scrubbing the author's names off and feeding them into your content farm.
You are not invited to my party.
reshared this
Fediverse News reshared this.
chronohart
in reply to Luca Sironi • • •It's not a matter of trust; it's a matter of choice. I (and many others) made the *choice* to not touch bluesky and now that choice is being taken away from everyone, by default, unless the individual user happens to know this is coming and hoe to stop it.
When the alternative is to flip this "simple" opt-out to an *equally simple* opt-in, the decision to make it opt-out is a decision to take choice away from your demographic in order to artificially enhance the user uptake of your product.
@PCOWandre @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
Jamie Booth
in reply to chronohart • • •HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴
in reply to Jamie Booth • • •What if I block #BS (just love the acronym 😉) and the BS #bridge but one or more of my followers who ARE "bridged" boost or link my content? Will it appear on #BS?
@chronohart @luca @PCOWandre @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
Jamie Booth
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴 • • •This is a really good question and I don't know the answer. This is the kinda of thing I think we should be asking about the bridge.
@snarfed do you know the answer to this?
Hartmut Neubauer
in reply to Jamie Booth • • •HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴
in reply to Hartmut Neubauer • • •(1/2)
I guess I can answer this question now: once s.o. quotes or boosts your content (= new post) you lose control of your content and cannot prevent it from being shared.
I'd say, unless you limited the post to your followers, however if one of your followers were on the #Friendica or #Hubzilla platform, they'd still be able to quote your post and then you'd still lose control,...
@jamie @chronohart @luca @PCOWandre @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews @snarfed
HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴 • • •(2/2)
...correct @shiri? (I hope I have understood everything correctly that all of you had such great patience to explain to me today.
//
Scott M. Stolz
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴 • • •@HistoPol
Not exactly accurate. Anyone can copy and paste your words into the post box and quote you. Some platforms make it easier than others though.
Also, Mastodon is rumored to be including quote posts soon, so even on Mastodon, people will be able to quote you.
HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴
in reply to Scott M. Stolz • • •Copy and paste is possible, anywhere, always, yes.
Difference: copy & paste will not leave a trail to your original post, a link will.
#Mastodon was supposed to have quote posts last summer. Then @Gargron sent a lengthy explanation that resources had to be recomitted to fix backend features. Since, I haven't heard anyhting new regarding this, but I have not searched for it either.
Scott M. Stolz
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴 • • •@HistoPol
Actually, it can. I can manually type your handle and what you said and it will reference you. Just mentioning someone's handle such as
@HistoPol@mastodon.socialreferences them (i.e. @HistoPol)Hartmut Neubauer
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴 • • •Of course, you are right regarding the issue of boosting content. So I would like to intervene a little bit earlier.
If, e.g., Babsi on Bluesky follows Mary on Mastodon, Mary already has given her consent to interact with BS via the Bridge. But now Freddie, another fediverse user who has NOT given this consent, answers to Mary's post. Question: Can Babsi read Freddie's comments?
->
Hartmut Neubauer
in reply to Hartmut Neubauer • • •Yes, but the "like", "share" and "answer" buttons are hidden or disabled for Babsi; furthermore Freddie's fediverse address ("@freddiemiller@friendica.xyz") is hidden so that it is not easy for Babsi to mention him. Perhaps it is even possible to prevent textwise selection and copying. But even if copy & paste would be possible, as @HistoPol mentioned, no trail would be left. ->
Hartmut Neubauer
in reply to Hartmut Neubauer • • •3rd: to display and allow all. But this might be difficult and a contradiction to that what Freddie has agreed to.
Hartmut Neubauer
in reply to Hartmut Neubauer • • •HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴
in reply to Hartmut Neubauer • • •Sounds öike an excellent solution
We need to beef up moderation!--We're going to be inundated by people with a completely different (net) sozialization and #netiquette:
mastodon.social/@HistoPol/1106…
@jamie @chronohart @luca @PCOWandre @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews @shiri @snarfed.org
chronohart
in reply to Jamie Booth • • •If you are an ActivityPub user that wishes to connect with bsky, you will likely find information about this bridge, assuming it isn't an immediate failure, as soon as you search the web for a method to connect ActivityPub to bsky.
@luca @PCOWandre @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
Jamie Booth
in reply to chronohart • • •chronohart
in reply to Jamie Booth • • •What about people that came to ActivityPub specifically because people that were harassing them are not here? This bridge makes it just that much easier for abusers to find their victims again because all they have to do is try a remembered Twitter handle to see if they get a hit through the bridge.
Do you disagree that this sort of abuse can happen?
@luca @PCOWandre @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
Jamie Booth
in reply to chronohart • • •No, but they could also create an AP account and harass the person. This bridge doesn't make that any more or less likely. You still have the same tools to block a user even if they are over the bridge.
I think there are a lot of positives to connect people who landed on different platforms. The possibility of harassment is really a more global Internet problem not AP/BS/Threads specific.
chronohart
in reply to Jamie Booth • • •You're confusing "possible" with "likely". Yes, it is absolutely *possible* for an abuser to join AP in order to find their victim, but it's less *likely* because that is an additional barrier.
On the other hand, if the abuser joins BS because they prefer that network and the only way to find their victim is to join AP, that will be enough of a barrier for many abusers to give up, making it less *likely* for the abuse to happen.
I agree that there are a lot of positives to connecting folks across networks *when they actively want to do so*, but it shouldn't be foised on people that already actively chose to join AP *instead* of BS.
@luca @PCOWandre @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
Jamie Booth
in reply to chronohart • • •I don't believe the choice of network matters that much. I think the harasser is more likely to go that extra step. If not, then a simple AP block solves that problem and that's a minor cost to enable better communication between people.
If this conversation around Bridgy Fed proves anything it's that we need more, less hostile communication between people.
Ubergeek
in reply to Jamie Booth • • •Hartmut Neubauer
in reply to Jamie Booth • • •@chronohart @luca @PCOWandre @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
Jamie Booth
in reply to Hartmut Neubauer • • •That takes a lot of time, and as someone in IT, most people take the defaults and are SHOCKED to learn some features exist. 😁
Having this behave like the rest of the fediverse accelerates the awareness and usefulness of the bridge.
You can more rapidly achieve the goal of allowing people to connect and converse. That is after all why the fediverse exists. The rest of this is semantics.
Hartmut Neubauer
in reply to Jamie Booth • • •Anyway. Before the new bridge service starts, I would strongly recommend to deal with European data protection laws for they are stronger in the EU than elsewhere.
Jamie Booth
in reply to Hartmut Neubauer • • •Grrrr, Darth Moose Shark
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •"Moderate people, not code" fails to learn from the simple fact that technology is not, and has never been, neutral.
You have to do both.
Nice catchphrase, but completely meaningless.
Csepp 🌢
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Shiri Bailem
in reply to Csepp 🌢 • • •Csepp 🌢
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •F4GRX Sébastien
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •reshared this
Fediverse News reshared this.
moved
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Jon Quass
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •@activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
Proxima Centauri
Unknown parent • • •Mastodon federates by default to all new instances. Bluesky Bridge is only a new instance.
Your problem is with Mastodon, not with this bridge.
user8e8f87e
Unknown parent • • •zeitverschreib [mastodon]
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •I trust that you will change OptOut to OptIn before your bridge goes online.
Just to make sure, I hereby prohibit the bridging of any information from this instance to BlueSky.
Furthermore, what are your plans for posts with more than 300 characters? I hope that you are not planning to forward incomplete posts to Bluesky, possibly destroying their meaning.
#nobridge
Shiri Bailem
in reply to zeitverschreib [mastodon] • • •@zeitverschreib [mastodon] @Ryan Barrett (a) the hashtag goes in your bio (b) that's not going to change, they're being nice, the norm is that bridges don't ask and the only way to have a say at all is to just block the bridge... which you can always do.
If you feel like your content needs to be opt-in to distribute, you should set all your posts private (bridge will only see them if you accept a follow request from a Bluesky user on the bridge), or you should move to a whitelist server (where your posts will only federate to explicitly approved servers)
Joana de Castro Arnaud
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •I have no interest of connecting into Bluesky, and I'm offended by your assumption that me, and most people, would be interested (opt-out instead of opt-in).
I call for #fediblock of bsky.brid.gy, and I'm blocking you. Thank you for listening.
Shiri Bailem
in reply to Joana de Castro Arnaud • • •@Joana de Castro Arnaud @Ryan Barrett it basically is opt in because someone on one side or the other will have to request the content, either one of your users requests a bluesky account or a bluesky user requests your account.
And the assumption is perfectly reasonable given that it's essentially just another instance, as if Bluesky spun up an activitypub endpoint themselves. The opt-out is at least a nice gesture (though unnecessary because blocking a server is an opt out regardless).
chris@strafpla.net
in reply to user8e8f87e • • •While my instinctive reaction was “leave us alone” I didn’t find a definition for “us” and I don’t think that the angry people have.
My conclusion is that the bridge is *exactly* what the rest of the #fedi is. All the drama is stupid.
Shun it for size or lack of moderation, not for existing.
L. Rhodes
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •A few more questions, if you don't mind:
1. Where does the bridge pass messages on the Bluesky side? Directly to other PDS? Through the Relay? Does it function as a PDS?
2. What ATproto services is it using to pull posts back to the fediverse side? An App View? A feed generator? A labeller?
3. Is the choice of those services set by the PDS, or will they be customizable from the fediverse side on a per-account basis?
ACCOUNT MOVED
in reply to chris@strafpla.net • • •user8e8f87e
in reply to ACCOUNT MOVED • • •Yes. Implement the AP protocol and you are part of it; then anybody can decide to block you. That’s how it works. I really hope @snarfed will just implement it.
(Nice profile picture btw! 🖤❤️)
Formerly Known As Bending Unit
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •#nobridge #idontconsent #fuckinvasivetechbros
seahorse
in reply to Formerly Known As Bending Unit • • •Shiri Bailem
in reply to seahorse • • •@seahorse @Formally Known As Bending Unit @Ryan Barrett pro-active statement that doesn't even knowledge of your network: bridges like this are passive, they appear and operate just the same as regular AP instances, only difference is that they're translating the requests on the other end to Bluesky and vice versa.
It's not live yet because it won't function until Bluesky federates, once they do it'll appear as a completely separate Bluesky instance in their network.
Bridges already exist for other networks as well, the only reason this is new is because Bluesky hasn't federated at all before.
As far as how to deal with it, if you don't want to see Bluesky accounts you can block the domain from your user account, or if an admin feels it's unacceptable they can block the domain server-wide. Both just like you can with a regular AP instance.
Formerly Known As Bending Unit
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •My admin took care of it.
I do not consider a bridge to bluesky or anything owned by (edit: sorry, affiliated with) a scumbag like dorsey to be "passive." I consider it to be the first step to #enshittification.
Shiri Bailem
in reply to Formerly Known As Bending Unit • • •@Formally Known As Bending Unit @Ryan Barrett @seahorse passive is a technical, not emotional term. Alternatively an "active" bridge would be akin to a webcrawler, actively pulling in posts whether or not they're requested.
That is also a wild misuse of enshittification. Enshittification is when a platform or product offers an explicit feature and upon achieving market dominance removes that feature.
This is simply someone using the existing features and design of ActivityPub in a way you dislike. This is not being provided by any of the platforms involved and is not something added or changed about the ActivityPub protocol.
Formerly Known As Bending Unit
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •you wasted your time defining passive and active, I could not care any less.
The definition I understand for enshittification is: "the pattern of decreasing quality of online platforms that act as two-sided markets."
Using a little knowledge and just a little bit of basic reasoning, I expect bluesky to only decrease the quality (as in, enshittify) of the mastodon experience.
More words more words more words
Shiri Bailem
in reply to Formerly Known As Bending Unit • • •@Formally Known As Bending Unit @Ryan Barrett I'm just calling out people for being assholes because OP is getting shit on for spending the extra effort to offer a respectful feature...
Thread is full of assholes who think it's impossible and unreasonable to just block an instance and that somehow it's a deep violation of the principles of the fediverse for it to federate, let alone federate by default.
"How dare bridges, a thing that's been around for every single federated platform throughout history, offer an opt-out function, a feature that few if any other bridges offer as the norm is for them to just connect and not care"
And again on the topic of enshittification... you share the whole definition but clearly only read half of it because you don't understand what a two-sided market is... and how this is not a two sided ma
... 显示更多@Formally Known As Bending Unit @Ryan Barrett I'm just calling out people for being assholes because OP is getting shit on for spending the extra effort to offer a respectful feature...
Thread is full of assholes who think it's impossible and unreasonable to just block an instance and that somehow it's a deep violation of the principles of the fediverse for it to federate, let alone federate by default.
"How dare bridges, a thing that's been around for every single federated platform throughout history, offer an opt-out function, a feature that few if any other bridges offer as the norm is for them to just connect and not care"
And again on the topic of enshittification... you share the whole definition but clearly only read half of it because you don't understand what a two-sided market is... and how this is not a two sided market...
To clarify: a two-sided market is a business with two different sides to it, in most cases with enshittification we're talking about users and advertisers, but it can also be something like a credit card company (cardholders and merchants). Enshittification does not happen between platforms, it happens within a platform that's acting as a two-sided market.
ActivityPub is not a market at all, the vast majority of AP instances are not two-sided markets (I haven't seen any as of yet, but I'm sure there's an ad driven one out there somewhere), the bridge is not a two-sided market, the only two-sided market in this conversation is Bluesky itself.
Formerly Known As Bending Unit
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •Oi, how about unwelcome assholes that feel the need to unwantedly splain things?
Hold this mute, since you don't take hints
tness16
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •@ghazi
@nizarus
Shiri Bailem
in reply to tness16 • • •@tness16 @Nizar Kerkeni 🇹🇳 نزار القرقني @Ghazi @Ryan Barrett this isn't a window, it's an adjoining door. It's letting us and them talk without having to first exit the house, walk around the building and re-enter a completely different house.
And to be clear, the fediverse is both, this bridge is the fediverse in action. What you mean is ActivityPub.
Johanna, CanCon variant
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •Shiri that’s the most apt analogy I’ve found so far! May I appropriate that? I find myself sometimes trying to explain fediverse concepts to outsiders.
I usually resort to the villages-of-many-small-unique-buildngs vs. one-single-monolithic-high-rise allegory.
Ghazi
in reply to tness16 • • •Whatever we post here is publicly accessible to anyone anyways, so I don't think this is a completely bad idea.
Jamie Booth
in reply to tness16 • • •tness16
in reply to Jamie Booth • • •1/2
tness16
in reply to tness16 • • •2/2
Jamie Booth
in reply to tness16 • • •tness16
in reply to Jamie Booth • • •Jamie Booth
in reply to tness16 • • •My guess is it won't have any way to know. But I don't know if BS has a bot tag like Mastodon.
I would also say not all bots are bad. You can have bots that report traffic or weather. Governments have bots for distributing information.
I feel like a lot of the responses to this have been reactions to the worst possible scenario. That rarely happens. Reality is somewhere in the middle.
tness16
in reply to Jamie Booth • • •Shiri Bailem
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Bennett
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •Hey Shari, most bridged services I've used are transparent about the bridge existing. I'm apart of a community that bridges IRC, Matrix, and Discord. This is instantly transpatent regardless of protocol or platform. This is usually how I've seen them work in social communities.
A lot of folks like this space because it's insular and allows them to attempt to control their reach, additionally the culture in many spaces here is heavily consent based.
reshared this
Fediverse News reshared this.
Bennett
in reply to Bennett • • •Do you genuinely believe that the main reason folks do not like this is because they don't understand what a bridge is? Same question applies to Apub/Masto. I suspect it's because folks here want to be asked if XYZ is fine or not, not because of a technical misunderstanding. Generally moderators help ensure the culture of consent is followed.
I feel you misunderstand where the folks you're replying to are coming from.
Shiri Bailem
Unknown parent • • •Jon
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Shiri Bailem
in reply to Jon • • •FS9-BS "Bad Survivor"
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Shiri Bailem
in reply to FS9-BS "Bad Survivor" • • •@FS9-BS "Bad Survivor" @Ryan Barrett what a hateful comment to make when they're doing more than any of the other bridges.
Let alone an ignorant comment to complain about how your publicly federated posts are passed around... sounds like you just need to join a whitelist server.
Fern Woodsson 🌿
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Ubergeek
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Shiri Bailem
Unknown parent • • •@Snowshadow @Allen you are not being signed up for anything with this, it's just another instance translating between the two protocols and all normal tools still apply.
The arrogance is thinking you can make public posts on a federate platform and dictate how they federate.
I'll also note that this isn't a corporate person doing this, it's a private individual. Bluesky has promised to federate under it's own protocol since it's beginning, once it does so you will see many instances on the bluesky protocol much the same as we're talking on the activitypub protocol, this bridge just connects the two protocols and a lot of people are interested in implementing such tools because that's the whole point of federation.
Scott M. Stolz
Unknown parent • • •@Allen
Out of the over 46,000 independently operated servers on the fediverse, how many are run by private entities? I don't know but I am guessing that it is more than 1.
At least with Bluesky and Threads, it is easy to block. But I am guessing that it would be nearly impossible to figure out which of the 46,000 ActivityPub-enabled servers are commercial and which are not.
And Threads will be connecting to ActivityPub natively. And so will WordPress. Both will bring in millions of users.
I respect people's choice to block whomever they want, but the ActivityPub part of the fediverse already has commercial servers in it. Bluesky would just be one more, which you are free to block.
Joshix
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •reshared this
Fediverse News reshared this.
Ryan Barrett
in reply to Joshix • • •I'm happy to opt you out manually, as I mentioned, you don't have to change your bio.
Joshix
2024-02-12 21:06:54
:baba_yaseen: :agenderFlag: :transgenderFlag:
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •@snarfed.org@fed.brid.gy I think you do not – or perhaps deliberately do not – understand the concept of “informed consent”. I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you have good intentions here. The road to hell is paved with those, and this is going to be another slab.
You are also assuming that people who do not want this will somehow be aware that this is happening, find your blog post (that nobody will ever read) and then realise they should put a hashtag in their bio to remove themselves. That’s not really an “opt-out” because how will anyone know this is happening? Even if a hundred people boost your primary post, that is only a small selection of all fediverse users, let alone instances that even know.
That means there is no way that any given user will even know they can opt-out of something that they do not even know is scraping them. How can you moderate user behaivour when you do not ev
... 显示更多@snarfed.org@fed.brid.gy I think you do not – or perhaps deliberately do not – understand the concept of “informed consent”. I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you have good intentions here. The road to hell is paved with those, and this is going to be another slab.
You are also assuming that people who do not want this will somehow be aware that this is happening, find your blog post (that nobody will ever read) and then realise they should put a hashtag in their bio to remove themselves. That’s not really an “opt-out” because how will anyone know this is happening? Even if a hundred people boost your primary post, that is only a small selection of all fediverse users, let alone instances that even know.
That means there is no way that any given user will even know they can opt-out of something that they do not even know is scraping them. How can you moderate user behaivour when you do not even know this is happening in the first place?
Especially since this means our posts will be on BlueSky, without any recourse for us to remove them from BlueSky because we do not have a consent agreement with BlueSky.
This is also highly illegal under the GDPR, which applies in the EEA and UK, which means you are breaking the law of 30+ nations at the same time. So not only are you just oblivious to the concept of “hey, I don’t like my posts being on BlueSky”, you are also oblivious to your legal requirements as a data handler.
Scott M. Stolz
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •David B. Himself
in reply to Scott M. Stolz • • •This was my feeling when the Threads freakout happened last summer and it has been confirmed since yesterday.
A lot of Mastodon users don't understand the first thing about the Fediverse and federation.
And it's concerning when some of those people are Mastodon admins.
#Mastodon#Fediverse#Federation#Consent#Privacy#BlueSky#Threads
Hazelnoot
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Shiri Bailem
in reply to Hazelnoot • • •@Hazelnoot @Ryan Barrett @Ryan Barrett what JP said, but also bridge services are open things. Opt-in really is more about your usage and server than the bridge.
For users who want a choice in how their posts are federated, I strongly recommend whitelist servers. Otherwise you've already opted in to the fediverse (and bridges are an important part of the fediverse) as a whole.
Hazelnoot
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •That's exactly my point, though. I've opted into the fediverse, not BlueSky or Twitter or Nostr or anything else that's been bridged before.
JP
Unknown parent • • •(Disculpe, estoy aprendiendo español!) ¿Quieres "bridge" a Bluesky con tecnologías de asistencia para invidentes?
(Excuse me, I’m learning Spanish!) you want to “bridge” with Bluesky with assistive technologies for the blind?
ric is writing a blog
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Ubergeek
Unknown parent • • •Ubergeek
Unknown parent • • •chronohart
Unknown parent • • •If it's so fantastically easy to just drop a hashtag in your bio to block the bridge, why can't that method be used to *join* the bridge instead? We should be operating from a consent-first model. Folks already chose to avoid bluesky *by joining a network that isn't bluesky* and now this bridge is going to force them to actively reinforce that decision.
That's assuming they even know this bridge exists in the first place! As much discussion as there is about this thing right now, there are and always will be folks that don't know anything about the bridge in time to prevent it from touching them. This is going to be yet another complication that folks have to consider when they join the fediverse, which is already criticised for being very complicated for new users.
reshared this
Fediverse News reshared this.
Greg Walker :manjaro:
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •You have this totally the wrong way round and are not respecting user privacy. If you're making big changes like this the default should be opted out, not opted in with a choice to opt out.
Don't be a dick like Facebook et.al do the right thing from the start.
Also we Europeans have stronger data protection laws and I suspect you're breaking them.
#respectuserprivacy
#GDPR
Hazelnoot
Unknown parent • • •respectfully, I still disagree. Those networks are entirely separate from the one that we're currently on (ActivityPub). The communities are different, the servers are different, the software is different, even the protocol is different. It's disingenuous to consider them all the same when there's literally no relation.
Side note, but that actually does exist. I once encountered a Mastodon instance that has been patched to automatically suspend any instance running Pleroma. I also know someone who uses a script to detect and block Soapbox instances. Not saying I support that, of course, but it's definitely a thing that some people do here.
reshared this
Fediverse News reshared this.
Felix Urbasik
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •chronohart
Unknown parent • • •Oh *FUCK* you. You do not get to tell people the harm they experienced and the safety they now have is *imaginary*. Wow. There's no help for you. We're done.
@snarfed.org
Ubergeek
Unknown parent • • •so... It slurps content from one network, into another, without consent from at least one party, correct?
Because I never consented to being tracked by bsky and used in their LLM and advertising data...
Baral'heia Stormdancer ΘΔ🐲
Unknown parent • • •Robur
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •@aeris you may be interested in this.
Jigme Datse
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Jamie Booth
Unknown parent • • •I'm wondering if that means there may be a functional difference between blocking the bridge vs adding the #nobridge tag?
F4GRX Sébastien
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •soc
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Macumba Macaca
Unknown parent • • •Tony Hoyle
Unknown parent • • •(Some of that is solvable by people licensing their posts under CC for example, but there's no common mechanism for it yet.. and it's not certain whether BS would accept that as complying).
Tony Hoyle
in reply to chronohart • • •One thing that occurs to me is the bluesky TOS:
"By sharing User Content through Bluesky Social, you grant us permission to: <lots of stuff>"
An opt out bridge simply can't obey that.. they don't have rights to grant permission to mastodon posts they don't own. Opt in they can have a TOS with similar wording that says you agree to allow that stuff to happen.
1/2
reshared this
Fediverse News reshared this.
HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴
in reply to Jamie Booth • • •An excellent question.
boothcomputing.social/@jamie/1…
@oliphant @snarfed @snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @fedidevs @fediversenews @chronohart @activitypubblueskybridge
Jamie Booth
2024-02-14 23:38:15
Jamie Booth
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴 • • •HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴
Unknown parent • • •#Bluesky #Block
Very concerning, indeed.
How would I go about this?
Would I need to block any and all friendica and hubzillla instances?
"you should be concerned of the thousands of instances like mine (Friendica and Hubzilla) ...boost your post, then it'll be copied over to Bluesky with no actual connection to you in the network, so your blocks will not apply and you will have no control over the post afterwards."
@jamie @oliphant @snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @chronohart @snarfed
HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴
Unknown parent • • •"...Friendica and Hubzilla) that will natively support Bluesky. If we boost your post, then it'll be copied over to Bluesky with no actual connection to you in the network,..."
Besser another question, as so far, I had been in favor of #Friendica;
Does this mean if I were 2 use these 2 platforms, I could never prevent my posts / content from being seen on #Elmo's PayPal platform?!?
Or is there really no difference?
@jamie @oliphant @snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @chronohart @snarfed
Scott M. Stolz
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴 • • •@HistoPol It is my understanding that boosts won't be passed on if you block the bridge or add
#nobridgeto your profile because the boost still has you as the original author. This would be true no matter which software a person is using.But if someone quotes you (on any platform, not just the ones mentioned) or takes a screenshot of your post, that would not be blocked. And people can do that now without the bridge. Windows comes with software that allows people to take screenshots. So do phones. And most other fediverse platforms other than Mastodon allow quoting.
The fediverse has over 100 different projects and multiple protocols already connected to it. If you are concerned that people will quote you or boost you on other networks, you might want to consider a whitelist servers where you only allow approved Mastodon instances.
With or without the Bluesky bridge, you are about to be outnumbered by Threads, WordPress, and other projects coming on
... 显示更多@HistoPol It is my understanding that boosts won't be passed on if you block the bridge or add
#nobridgeto your profile because the boost still has you as the original author. This would be true no matter which software a person is using.But if someone quotes you (on any platform, not just the ones mentioned) or takes a screenshot of your post, that would not be blocked. And people can do that now without the bridge. Windows comes with software that allows people to take screenshots. So do phones. And most other fediverse platforms other than Mastodon allow quoting.
The fediverse has over 100 different projects and multiple protocols already connected to it. If you are concerned that people will quote you or boost you on other networks, you might want to consider a whitelist servers where you only allow approved Mastodon instances.
With or without the Bluesky bridge, you are about to be outnumbered by Threads, WordPress, and other projects coming online. ActivityPub is an open network, after all. Always has been.
But the nice thing is that you can control who you connect with by blocking or whitelisting. In your case, being on a whitelist server would probably address your concerns.
Jamie Booth
Unknown parent • • •Evan Minto
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴 • • •HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴
in reply to Scott M. Stolz • • •Thanks a lot, Scott.
I am aware of several of these things. A friend of mine, stefanbohacek.online/@stefan, created jointhefediverse.net to remedy this lack of undesirable for newbies and no-nerds.
I know what #whitelisting is general, but how would I go about this on #Mastodon?
The whitelist, if I don't want to do everything manually (no-go,) would need to be "intelligent" and able to discern the platform s.o. is using for his handle...
I can live with the screenshot issue.
Join the fediverse!
jointhefediverse.netScott M. Stolz
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴 • • •@HistoPol
I don't use Mastodon, so I don't know for sure. Some people have mentioned that there is a whitelist mode that is called "limited federation mode" or something like that. The admin would have to turn that on since it is for the whole instance.
If you don't want to use whitelist mode, people have been talking about blocklists that can be imported into Mastodon. I am not familiar with how they work. Maybe someone who uses Mastodon could answer this one?
Qazm
in reply to Scott M. Stolz • • •In short, it's just like blocking one-by-one but as batch-action. Admins can also block domains using wildcards, I think.
However, either would not work to block specific software. You would indeed have to use an instance in limited federation mode, where each connection is checked one-by-one, to avoid federating with Friendica and Hubzilla instances that could copy your posts over.
Scott M. Stolz
in reply to Qazm • • •@Qazm There are other options, like using a platform that has privacy, access lists, permissions, and better moderation tools. Mastodon only has block lists, which limits user's control over their own posts.
For example, on Mastodon you can block someone so you can't see their posts, but you can't stop them from replying to posts they have already seen. On Hubzilla, you can actually turn off commenting on your posts so no one can reply or so that specific people can't reply, and can even delete other people's replies to your thread. You control the conversation in your thread. You can't do that on platforms like Mastodon.
Also, on Hubzilla, it is all about user choice. So if Hubzilla implements the Bluesky protocol, both the admin AND the user would have to opt-in. Users would have to actively turn on the Bluesky addon to federate with Bluesky. Otherwise none of their posts will ever be sent to Bluesky. I am pretty sure Friendica will work the same way.
So Hubzilla
... 显示更多@Qazm There are other options, like using a platform that has privacy, access lists, permissions, and better moderation tools. Mastodon only has block lists, which limits user's control over their own posts.
For example, on Mastodon you can block someone so you can't see their posts, but you can't stop them from replying to posts they have already seen. On Hubzilla, you can actually turn off commenting on your posts so no one can reply or so that specific people can't reply, and can even delete other people's replies to your thread. You control the conversation in your thread. You can't do that on platforms like Mastodon.
Also, on Hubzilla, it is all about user choice. So if Hubzilla implements the Bluesky protocol, both the admin AND the user would have to opt-in. Users would have to actively turn on the Bluesky addon to federate with Bluesky. Otherwise none of their posts will ever be sent to Bluesky. I am pretty sure Friendica will work the same way.
So Hubzilla and Friendica would actually do a better job at blocking Bluesky than the bridge does. And the bridge actually has a lot of options for blocking Bluesky.
So instead of blocking Hubzilla and Friendica, you probably want to start using it instead, since it gives you better protection against Threads and Bluesky than Mastodon does.
HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴
Unknown parent • • •(1/n)
I think I owe you a quick #INTRO, as I have not been in contact with you before, so you might better understand my concerns.
I am a political commentator, as well as an activist. This is why I cannot remain silent:
This is a global super-election year. #Democracy is up for grabs in about 50 countries.1)--This is how the billionaires and the #autocrats like #Putin and #Xi see it, or how #YoelRoth...
HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴 • • •@activitypubblueskybridge
AP-AT-BridgeGroup
Very interesting, how is it possible that you boosted my #Intro thread, even though I have #NoBridge in my bio and am not even a member of your group?!?
@shiri @jamie @oliphant @snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @chronohart @snarfed
HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴
Unknown parent • • •Thanks for the explanation, Shiri.
I pay attention to such thinks, but even with hindsight, I do not see such a group reference.
On #Mastodon, groups are also possible, but I forgot how to use them, as I used them so little.
@jamie @oliphant @snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @chronohart @snarfed
Scott M. Stolz
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴 • • •@HistoPol
For someone like you, you would probably want to post publicly, to as many platforms and protocols as you can, so you reach a wider audience. But you would need to choose a platform with better permissions and moderation tools.
For example, you would want to control who can comment on your posts and be able to delete comments that are toxic. Mastodon does not have this capability, but most platforms that have threaded conversations give you that ability.
HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴 • • •(2/n)
...former head of #Twitter's Trust and Security department, might have phrased it. 2)
We have all seen what has happened to #Twitter. What many still don't know, is why he is supposedly burning a lot of money with the purchase: 3).
#Musk and his #TESCREAL 4) adherents from Silicon Valley are vying for world domination. #Elmo already is the world's most...
HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴
Unknown parent • • •(6/n)
...#PredictivePolicing. 8)
*2024 certainly isn't the year to remain silent:*
#Poland lost and regained its democracy twice already.
The *US* might lose it to a ruthless autocrat in 2025.
And #Ukraine is fighting tooth and nail for its #democracy.
//
FOOTNOTES:
1) weforum.org/agenda/2023/12/202…
2) mastodon.social/@HistoPol/1110…
3) mastodon.social/@HistoPol/1100…
4) mastodon.social/@HistoPol/1105…
...
HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴
Unknown parent • • •(5/n)
... #disinformation and carrying out #CyberWarfare.
And, last but not least, another, even more dangerous #PayPal of #Elmo, #PeterThiel, is enabling governments around the globe to get rid of opponents. The dangerous spyware he owns, #Palantir, is being used e.g. to hunt down investigative journalists in #SouthAmerica 8) and elsewhere 7) and for #discriminatory...
HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴
Unknown parent • • •(4/n)
... successful has so far been the #FederalistSociety in conjunction with the #CenterForNationalPolicy (#CNP), among whose major feats are putting #Trump in the #WhiteHouse and hijacking the #US #SupremeCourt. 6)
#Autocrats like #Putin and #Xi trying to gain influence through military and economic means are the other group of people trying to destroy #Western #democracies by disseminating...
HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴 • • •(3/n)
...influential fascist, just considering his market power regarding #SpaceX 5) and the "voice" he has as #X owner. By turning off his #StarLink service in #Crimea, he has successfully prevented potentially victorious strikes by #Ukraine against #Russia's invasion force.
But they are not the only #billionaire group vying for even more power. The most...
Jupiter Rowland
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴 • • •@HistoPol
That's because Mastodon doesn't tell you that
Not yet. They're working on it. And everything else that has working groups/forums now is afraid that Mastodon will re-invent the wheel in a way that's the most incompatible possible to what already exists on more than half a dozen Fediverse projects.
What you mean is probably Guppe, but that isn't built into Mastodon and a far cry from what's possible on Friendica.
CC: @Jamie Booth @Oli @Ryan Barrett @Luca Sironi @Andre @chronohart
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #Friendica #Groups
HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴
Unknown parent • • •"If you operate in a "I control where my message goes" manner, then you're operating in a manner that can be very easily silenced. It drastically limits your reach.
It's one of those fundamental things where you can't have it both ways, control over your reach is inherently limiting to your reach."
Excellent point, Shiri. Taken.
@jamie @oliphant @snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @chronohart @snarfed
HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴
Unknown parent • • •(1/2)
"If you operate in a "I control where my message goes" manner, then you're operating in a manner that can be very easily silenced. It drastically limits your reach.
It's one of those fundamental things where you can't have it both ways, control over your reach is inherently limiting to your reach."
Excellent point, Shiri. Taken.
However, please...
@jamie @oliphant @snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @chronohart @snarfed
HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴
Unknown parent • • •"...have to shut down the whole network to stop you.
Bridges make it even harder for them because then you can also jump between platforms and if they can't shut down your server they'd have to shut down every single bridge..."
I begin to like #bridges. #FascismProof and #AutocracyProof, so-to-speak :)
@jamie @oliphant @snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @chronohart @snarfed
HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴
Unknown parent • • •(1/2)
"If Bluesky starts pumping hardcore propaganda and silencing leftist voices... then the bridge offers a light, showing the abuse and giving them a way out that doesn't involve starting over from scratch."
How so? I have not read that you can migrate you #BlueSky account to another #Fediverse platform, say, #friendica
However, for me the single biggest #exit barrier is, that I...
@jamie @oliphant @snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @chronohart @snarfed
HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴 • • •(2/2)
...would lose my over 40k posts again, and *a lot* of them are important to me, as I regularly reference back to older posts. Furthermore, convos/discussions, such as these, are of value and are also worth keeping for future reference. They'd be lost, too, by moving. AFAIC, there is only one #Fediverse platform that permits migrating posts, but only internally, too.
//
Scott M. Stolz
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴 • • •@HistoPol
That is one of the main reasons the fediverse exists and and is structured the way it is.
There still are some concerns about trolls commenting on your posts, but that can be dealt with using the proper tools.
This applies to the fediverse as well.
Qazm
in reply to Scott M. Stolz • • •@scott I don't think so. Other Hubzilla or Friendica instances that receive a Hubzilla post over AP can still boost it over there, right?
The reply control from your instance won't stop Mastodon users from replying either (though it will stop you seeing those replies, and to some extent will reduce the visibility of replies).
I think it all comes down to what's outlined in foggyminds.com/display/c6ef095… (saw that post a little after my reply above) and open federated social media in general being built around own-access-choices rather than data control, outside of posting modes with very limited reach which *should* be implemented with more privacy than they are.
@scott I don't think so. Other Hubzilla or Friendica instances that receive a Hubzilla post over AP can still boost it over there, right?
The reply control from your instance won't stop Mastodon users from replying either (though it will stop you seeing those replies, and to some extent will reduce the visibility of replies).
I think it all comes down to what's outlined in foggyminds.com/display/c6ef095… (saw that post a little after my reply above) and open federated social media in general being built around own-access-choices rather than data control, outside of posting modes with very limited reach which *should* be implemented with more privacy than they are.
Shiri Bailem
2024-02-15 20:45:10
Scott M. Stolz
in reply to Qazm • • •HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴
Unknown parent • • •Highly interesting.
I think this sentence is missing the alternative method to #AccountMigration:
"The way out is because you can leave without severing connections."
@jamie @oliphant @snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @chronohart @snarfed
HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴
Unknown parent • • •I did this using a Tool migrating from the (now) #DeadBirdSite.
Still, not being able to migrate the convos is NOT an "alternative", but an *escape hatch*."
One example, that many will know:
Imagine, that you invented 1000's of hours uploading and curating pics and shorts on your #Instagram account.
For whatever reason, you cannot maintain your account. Starting a new one, you lose all your work (it's not just...
@jamie @oliphant @snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @chronohart @snarfed
HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🥥 🌴 • • •(2/2)
...just the pics, but the interaction with contacts.)
PS:
I know:
...there are tools for exporting (beside the point)
...many people here even autodelete there posts (utterly different use-case)
...it's better than on most corporate sites (yes, but still just "rudimentary" flexibility, at least on #Mastodon.)
...that #Firefish(?) (still?) supports own-post migration (but that was no choice when I joined)
//
Luca Sironi
Unknown parent • • •I didn't knew this thing that you can't migrate your follower from mastodon to friendica 😐
From mastodon to pleroma (and i think also misskey) it works.
cc @informapirata
informapirata ⁂ :privacypride:
in reply to Luca Sironi • • •I understand your difficulties, but always remember that Friendica is compatible with ActivityPub BUT it works with a different protocol and its profiles are particular objects that contain a kind of unique key
@shiri
Luca Sironi
Unknown parent • • •@activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
Well, migrating followers (just followers) should really be a standard feature of ActivityPub then.
One that must be implemented by all the supposed AP compatible projects
Nobody is gonna buy the theoretical reach of all the same people, like real freedom to change fediverse provider.
cc @evan
informapirata ⁂ :privacypride:
Unknown parent • • •I'm actually pretty sure Friendica put up Activitypub a few months later than mastodon, but otherwise I agree with what you say.
@luca
informapirata ⁂ :privacypride:
in reply to Luca Sironi • • •In reality, when it comes to migrations, Friendica does much more than any other ActivityPub-compatible platform, such as importing all the messages and contents of the old profile...
Friendica cannot be responsible for Mastodon's flaws 🤷🏽♂️
@evan @shiri @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews